Ende des Monats besuche Ich ein Atommüll Endlager in Niedersachsen!
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Ende des Monats besuche Ich ein Atommüll Endlager in Niedersachsen! Was sollte Ich dort für Fragen stellen / was interessiert euch?
Da dies für Verwirrung gesorgt hat: Ich spreche vom Endlager Konrad in Salzgitter. Ist es ein echtes Endlager? Vielleicht sollte Ich mit der Frage anfangen...
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@ErikUden
Endlager? Kein Zwischenlager?@ben Scheint so:
Oder viel mehr, es wird dazu gebaut...?!
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@ErikUden Das Grundwasser, wie wird auf viele Tausend Jahre sichergestellt, das es nicht kontaminiert wird.
@Wolf Sehr gute Frage.
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@ErikUden
Endlager? Also Schacht Konrad oder die Asse?Ich wüsste gerne, wie es jetzt in Asse aussieht. Mein letzter Stand war massiver Wassereintritt und die Vorgabe, die endgelagerten Stoffe zurückzuholen um zu vermeiden, dass radioaktive Stoffe ins Grundwasser ausgeschwemmt werden.
Ist jetzt aber schon ein paar Jahre her, damals standen Kosten im Raum, die ich vergessen oder verdrängt habe.
Mittlerweile bin ich sicherer im Umgang mit Milliarden.
@solarplexus Leider ist es der Schacht Konrad! Du scheinst dich aber auszukennen :]
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@ErikUden Ach heute Morgen zufällig die neue NDR Doku zu Asse gefrühstückt: https://www.ardmediathek.de/video/story/der-herr-der-faesser-atom-debakel-asse/ndr/Y3JpZDovL25kci5kZS9mZDUwZmJjNC1hZTI1LTRkNTctYmU5Mi00MGNiMWIyNWE2M2Q
Die einzige Frage die ich habe ist wie man nach Asse noch Atomkraftwerke haben wollen kann. Nach sowas sollte das Thema für immer durch sein.
@moreentropy Leider nicht Asse, sondern Konrad!
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@ErikUden Kannst Du was für mich mitnehmen dahin?
@Oeltanks ehm... ja?! Was denn?
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@ErikUden Wie werden Klimakollapsauswirkungen die Lagerung beeinflussen und was ist dann der Plan diesen Einflüssen keine schädlichen Auswirkungen folgen zu lassen?
@majortom Sehr gute Frage!
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Warum das zeug nicht in Bayern liegt wo Windräder nicht gewollt sind.
@nahtanoy wichtigste Frage!
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@ErikUden Es gibt doch keine Endlager???? Egal, frag mal nach Nachhaltigkeit bei Software, Dateiformaten und Dokumentenstandards. Wie stellen die sicher, dass relevante Doku auch in 10, 20, 30 Jahren / Jahrzehnten / Generationen noch lesbar sind?
@mfeilner Guter Punkt! Ich werde beim „Endlager” Konrad sein.
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@ErikUden der Müll wievieler AKWs mit wie viel Laufzeit passt in ein Lager. Wieviele Endlager bräuchte es, wenn wir auf die Kernkraft Apologeten gehört hätten und diesen Quatsch nicht nur dran gegeben hätten sondern auch noch ausgeweitet?
@Euchrid wichtige Frage!
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Da dies für Verwirrung gesorgt hat: Ich spreche vom Endlager Konrad in Salzgitter. Ist es ein echtes Endlager? Vielleicht sollte Ich mit der Frage anfangen...
Heute ist der Tag meines Besuchs des Atommüll Endlagers Konrad in Salzgitter. Der Schacht geht 1200m tief, und der Bereich den wir betreten wird über 35°C warm.
Jeder von uns bekommt eine Sauerstoffflasche für den Fall das wir verschüttet werden, da die Bergungsarbeiten ein paar Wochen dauern würde.
Wünscht mir Glück.
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Heute ist der Tag meines Besuchs des Atommüll Endlagers Konrad in Salzgitter. Der Schacht geht 1200m tief, und der Bereich den wir betreten wird über 35°C warm.
Jeder von uns bekommt eine Sauerstoffflasche für den Fall das wir verschüttet werden, da die Bergungsarbeiten ein paar Wochen dauern würde.
Wünscht mir Glück.
Glück auf! Ich bin heil wieder zurückgekommen, aber nicht als gleicher Mensch. Ich hoffe heute Nacht noch berichten zu können.
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Glück auf! Ich bin heil wieder zurückgekommen, aber nicht als gleicher Mensch. Ich hoffe heute Nacht noch berichten zu können.
@ErikUden Nach einem unbemerktem Unfall im Atommüll Endlager kam Erik Uden verändert zurück. Er wusste nicht, dass er jetzt Katzenfresser Uden ist.
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E erikuden@mastodon.de shared this topic on
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@ErikUden Nach einem unbemerktem Unfall im Atommüll Endlager kam Erik Uden verändert zurück. Er wusste nicht, dass er jetzt Katzenfresser Uden ist.
@VeeLux ich habe sie lediglich etwas zu sehr geküsst
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Glück auf! Ich bin heil wieder zurückgekommen, aber nicht als gleicher Mensch. Ich hoffe heute Nacht noch berichten zu können.
A short while ago I was allowed to visit a long term nuclear waste storage facility, built to hold low and mid tier radioactive material for geological time (hundreds of thousands to a few million years).
I entered early in the morning and got into an elevator driving me 800 meters deep, with the complex tunnel system we toured going up to a kilometer down from the surface. I came up in the late afternoon a changed man due to what I've seen.
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A short while ago I was allowed to visit a long term nuclear waste storage facility, built to hold low and mid tier radioactive material for geological time (hundreds of thousands to a few million years).
I entered early in the morning and got into an elevator driving me 800 meters deep, with the complex tunnel system we toured going up to a kilometer down from the surface. I came up in the late afternoon a changed man due to what I've seen.
@ErikUden why dose low level ways need long term storage?
I thought that stuff was safe within weeks or months. Honestly I though med level only need a few decades of storage -
@ErikUden why dose low level ways need long term storage?
I thought that stuff was safe within weeks or months. Honestly I though med level only need a few decades of storage@spycrab there's no internationally (even European) agreed upon standard for classifying nuclear waste. Low- to mid-range in this context could mean something entirely different.
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A short while ago I was allowed to visit a long term nuclear waste storage facility, built to hold low and mid tier radioactive material for geological time (hundreds of thousands to a few million years).
I entered early in the morning and got into an elevator driving me 800 meters deep, with the complex tunnel system we toured going up to a kilometer down from the surface. I came up in the late afternoon a changed man due to what I've seen.
After multiple hours underground, having already met dozens of workers, who spend their days at a job without any sunlight in a grotesque world I could've never imagined, we finally arrived at the actual site where nuclear waste will be stored for millenia. I've seen the many tunnels stretching multiple kilometers in one direction in which the actual barrels and other containers for nuclear material will be put, completely drowned in cement, segment by segment, and then closed off for a time longer than the human species has existed, starting the load up in 2030 until 2070 in the city of Salzgitter, in my state of Lower-Saxony.
This facility will only be able to store half of Germany's low- and mid-tier nuclear waste, only a bit over 300.000m³ of it. While this type of waste makes up for ~95% of all nuclear waste in Germany, it's still less than a percent of total radiation emitted by all nuclear material. The other 99% is emitted by the high-tier nuclear waste, which there currently isn't any solution for storing on planet earth, yet. Don't get confused by the classiciations like “low”, “mid”, and “high”, as there is no international (or even European) standard for classifying nuclear waste. I was told by the leader of the BGE, Germany's federal company for radioactive waste disposal, that there was an attempt to create such a standard at a working group of the IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency), which she was a part of, but they gave up after just four weeks.
This facility was so deep underground as a rather arbitrary choice, simply because that's how deep the iron miners went when this was an actual mine. The storage facility in France (Le Monge) is only 500 meters deep, in some European countries even less. The advantage of this here is that no ice age or glacier period has ever affected the underground this low (permafrost or thermal penetration doesn't go deeper than 500m). Still, by today's standards for nuclear long term waste storage, a facility like this wouldn't be chosen, not just due to nearby underground water streams potentially breaking in and leaking nuclear waste into one of the largest rivers of Europe, but also because the city formed around the iron mine, and the 40 years of loading nuclear waste down this facility will come with accidents and an increased radiation to the people living here.
The room, if you could call it that, rather the tunnel, the complex where nuclear waste would be stored, was hot. Like Icarus who flew too close to the sun, I wasn't aware that just a kilometer below the earth's crust, we'd reach sweating temperatures of 37°C to even 40°C due to the earth's core emitting its heat.
While the goal of this presentation was for Germany's federal company for radioactive waste disposal (BGE) to convince us that this facility was safe so we'd endorse it in state and federal parliament, maybe even for them to polish their image, there were certain topics they omitted talking about. My favorite topic was one of them: Long-term nuclear waste warning messages.
We were told about how perfect this facility was, how nothing could penetrate it, and in geological time, all the simulations possibly proving otherwise, were misleading, so I asked about the one thing they forgot mentioning: the human element. Just 5000 years ago they built the pyramids, now archeologists rediscover and search through them. With billions going into this facility, won't people finding any record of this place possibly believe humanity's most valuable items to be stored here? Shouldn't we install long-term warning messages for future generations? I asked.
The leader of the facility responded “We cannot take responsibility for future civilizations.”
Standing in the chambers that are built to exist for over two million years, those words sent a shiver down my spine. I realized that this would be our generation's legacy: debt and a broken planet.
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After multiple hours underground, having already met dozens of workers, who spend their days at a job without any sunlight in a grotesque world I could've never imagined, we finally arrived at the actual site where nuclear waste will be stored for millenia. I've seen the many tunnels stretching multiple kilometers in one direction in which the actual barrels and other containers for nuclear material will be put, completely drowned in cement, segment by segment, and then closed off for a time longer than the human species has existed, starting the load up in 2030 until 2070 in the city of Salzgitter, in my state of Lower-Saxony.
This facility will only be able to store half of Germany's low- and mid-tier nuclear waste, only a bit over 300.000m³ of it. While this type of waste makes up for ~95% of all nuclear waste in Germany, it's still less than a percent of total radiation emitted by all nuclear material. The other 99% is emitted by the high-tier nuclear waste, which there currently isn't any solution for storing on planet earth, yet. Don't get confused by the classiciations like “low”, “mid”, and “high”, as there is no international (or even European) standard for classifying nuclear waste. I was told by the leader of the BGE, Germany's federal company for radioactive waste disposal, that there was an attempt to create such a standard at a working group of the IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency), which she was a part of, but they gave up after just four weeks.
This facility was so deep underground as a rather arbitrary choice, simply because that's how deep the iron miners went when this was an actual mine. The storage facility in France (Le Monge) is only 500 meters deep, in some European countries even less. The advantage of this here is that no ice age or glacier period has ever affected the underground this low (permafrost or thermal penetration doesn't go deeper than 500m). Still, by today's standards for nuclear long term waste storage, a facility like this wouldn't be chosen, not just due to nearby underground water streams potentially breaking in and leaking nuclear waste into one of the largest rivers of Europe, but also because the city formed around the iron mine, and the 40 years of loading nuclear waste down this facility will come with accidents and an increased radiation to the people living here.
The room, if you could call it that, rather the tunnel, the complex where nuclear waste would be stored, was hot. Like Icarus who flew too close to the sun, I wasn't aware that just a kilometer below the earth's crust, we'd reach sweating temperatures of 37°C to even 40°C due to the earth's core emitting its heat.
While the goal of this presentation was for Germany's federal company for radioactive waste disposal (BGE) to convince us that this facility was safe so we'd endorse it in state and federal parliament, maybe even for them to polish their image, there were certain topics they omitted talking about. My favorite topic was one of them: Long-term nuclear waste warning messages.
We were told about how perfect this facility was, how nothing could penetrate it, and in geological time, all the simulations possibly proving otherwise, were misleading, so I asked about the one thing they forgot mentioning: the human element. Just 5000 years ago they built the pyramids, now archeologists rediscover and search through them. With billions going into this facility, won't people finding any record of this place possibly believe humanity's most valuable items to be stored here? Shouldn't we install long-term warning messages for future generations? I asked.
The leader of the facility responded “We cannot take responsibility for future civilizations.”
Standing in the chambers that are built to exist for over two million years, those words sent a shiver down my spine. I realized that this would be our generation's legacy: debt and a broken planet.
Thanks for the report which unsurprisingly did nothing to dispell my concerns about nuclear power and the treatment of its waste.
"We were told about how perfect this facility was"
Was that before or after everybody got handed one (1) oxygen bottle 'just in case the tunnel collapsed and you'd be waiting for rescue for weeks'?
“We cannot take responsibility for future civilizations.”
That's a cute way of saying "we don't give a fuck".
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After multiple hours underground, having already met dozens of workers, who spend their days at a job without any sunlight in a grotesque world I could've never imagined, we finally arrived at the actual site where nuclear waste will be stored for millenia. I've seen the many tunnels stretching multiple kilometers in one direction in which the actual barrels and other containers for nuclear material will be put, completely drowned in cement, segment by segment, and then closed off for a time longer than the human species has existed, starting the load up in 2030 until 2070 in the city of Salzgitter, in my state of Lower-Saxony.
This facility will only be able to store half of Germany's low- and mid-tier nuclear waste, only a bit over 300.000m³ of it. While this type of waste makes up for ~95% of all nuclear waste in Germany, it's still less than a percent of total radiation emitted by all nuclear material. The other 99% is emitted by the high-tier nuclear waste, which there currently isn't any solution for storing on planet earth, yet. Don't get confused by the classiciations like “low”, “mid”, and “high”, as there is no international (or even European) standard for classifying nuclear waste. I was told by the leader of the BGE, Germany's federal company for radioactive waste disposal, that there was an attempt to create such a standard at a working group of the IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency), which she was a part of, but they gave up after just four weeks.
This facility was so deep underground as a rather arbitrary choice, simply because that's how deep the iron miners went when this was an actual mine. The storage facility in France (Le Monge) is only 500 meters deep, in some European countries even less. The advantage of this here is that no ice age or glacier period has ever affected the underground this low (permafrost or thermal penetration doesn't go deeper than 500m). Still, by today's standards for nuclear long term waste storage, a facility like this wouldn't be chosen, not just due to nearby underground water streams potentially breaking in and leaking nuclear waste into one of the largest rivers of Europe, but also because the city formed around the iron mine, and the 40 years of loading nuclear waste down this facility will come with accidents and an increased radiation to the people living here.
The room, if you could call it that, rather the tunnel, the complex where nuclear waste would be stored, was hot. Like Icarus who flew too close to the sun, I wasn't aware that just a kilometer below the earth's crust, we'd reach sweating temperatures of 37°C to even 40°C due to the earth's core emitting its heat.
While the goal of this presentation was for Germany's federal company for radioactive waste disposal (BGE) to convince us that this facility was safe so we'd endorse it in state and federal parliament, maybe even for them to polish their image, there were certain topics they omitted talking about. My favorite topic was one of them: Long-term nuclear waste warning messages.
We were told about how perfect this facility was, how nothing could penetrate it, and in geological time, all the simulations possibly proving otherwise, were misleading, so I asked about the one thing they forgot mentioning: the human element. Just 5000 years ago they built the pyramids, now archeologists rediscover and search through them. With billions going into this facility, won't people finding any record of this place possibly believe humanity's most valuable items to be stored here? Shouldn't we install long-term warning messages for future generations? I asked.
The leader of the facility responded “We cannot take responsibility for future civilizations.”
Standing in the chambers that are built to exist for over two million years, those words sent a shiver down my spine. I realized that this would be our generation's legacy: debt and a broken planet.
“I don't believe in long-term nuclear waste warning messages” the leader of the nuclear waste storage facility continued. "I subscribe to the philosophy that we should ultimately forget about this place.”
She explained herself quite rationally, saying that any warning sign is at the end of the day a sign. Shutting everything down, not leaving anything to notice behind, except for a landscape indistinguishable from nature, would be ideal. She fantasized about closing it all down and growing green grass on top for a few minutes.
It was also her first time standing here, underground, at the actual site where nuclear waste will be stored, as in her years of managing this facility, often from afar in the name of the federal company for radioactive waste disposal, she was never underground. Unlike all the other people in white suits, she wasn't greeted by any of the workers down here.
She continued saying that no civilization before the industrial revolution was able to dig as deep as this nuclear waste will be stored. Once we were able to dig so deeply, we also had devices that could detect radioactivity. In that regard she stated that “We cannot take responsibility for future civilizations.”
While I see her logic, I disagree. There will be records of this place, no matter how far underground, it will never be indistinguishable from nature. Half of all of Germany's nuclear waste will be driven here. That's tens of thousands of trucks from the entire country with one destination: Salzgitter, Lower-Saxony.
Enough money to solve homelessness multiple times over will be poured into one dot of a place. So close to a city with people remembering and retelling what was here. Especially with its past of mining iron ore, of which only a fraction of a percent has ever been dug out, I cannot believe that humans will leave this place behind, and when they do find it, there will be no message telling them to stop.
Our species has existed for 300,000 years. The first recorded civilization is around 10,000 years old, the burning of the library of Alexandria, which made humanity forget so much of ancient civilization, was not even two thousand years ago, and the dark ages ended 600 years ago. Not even 200 years ago, we still weren't finished with the industrial revolution, and only 80 years ago, one human lifetime, the first nuclear reactor was built. Most of all nuclear waste was produced in the past decades, yet here we are dumping it below the earth's outer crust, and making decisions for a period of time no living being could ever comprehend, only because we valued immediate reward over long term wellbeing.
Most of our history is forgotten, and the history that is known is always perceived through a miopic, contemporary lense. Yet in all we believe to understand about ourselves, no human, be they king or emperor, has ever been as greedy, as self-centered, as reckless as to make a decision for future generations for as long as we've done without even flinching. This underground nuclear waste facility stands as a monument, a time capsule for everything the future needs to know about humanity under capitalism.
The specific clay formation this facility is dug into has not changed within any measurable geological time. It's ideal for long term storage like this, because when closed off without any air gaps, all layers of stone and rubble and dirt artificially re-done, the nuclear waste is supposed to just stay within that blob of clay which was here before the dinosaurs were wiped out, and will be here once we are gone too.
After we've filled it up, there's no place in Germany for the other half of nuclear waste. What reasonable human could suggest continuing the energy production that lead to this waste in the first place, as if it was nothing?
