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  2. GrapheneOS [Unofficial]
  3. GrapheneOS On Pixel Devices Will Continue

GrapheneOS On Pixel Devices Will Continue

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved GrapheneOS [Unofficial]
grapheneos
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  • R rdri@lemmy.world

    Maybe it's just me but those "very reasonable hardware requirements" look like they can be handled only by huge corporations directly involved with Android development.

    If you expect to have stuff patched within a week, it should tell me you expect all those unpatched devices are going to be heavily impacted after a week. It doesn't look like a lot of massive security incidents are happening to Android devices in recent years because some vendor delayed a patch by a week. I understand high standards, but if some user also expects high standards why shouldn't they expect their devices patched within a day? Only explanation is that most people care about privacy risks much more than about security risks.

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    jet@hackertalks.com
    wrote last edited by
    #3

    Security risks are privacy risks.

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    • J jet@hackertalks.com

      Security risks are privacy risks.

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      rdri@lemmy.world
      wrote last edited by
      #4

      Privacy risk is like "Google is constantly spying on me".
      Security risk is like "a hacker next door is waiting for a next 0day to drop to get my passwords and photos".
      Guess which of these is a real threat in most people's eyes?

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      • R rdri@lemmy.world

        Privacy risk is like "Google is constantly spying on me".
        Security risk is like "a hacker next door is waiting for a next 0day to drop to get my passwords and photos".
        Guess which of these is a real threat in most people's eyes?

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        jet@hackertalks.com
        wrote last edited by
        #5

        The friendly police officer wants to look at my phone: they're going to attach it to an industrial device to hack into my phone and take all the data.

        Every security risk is a privacy risk. Most people live in places where the police will investigate their phones, it's not even rare anymore. Phones are examined at border crossings, arrests, everywhere.

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        • J jet@hackertalks.com

          The friendly police officer wants to look at my phone: they're going to attach it to an industrial device to hack into my phone and take all the data.

          Every security risk is a privacy risk. Most people live in places where the police will investigate their phones, it's not even rare anymore. Phones are examined at border crossings, arrests, everywhere.

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          rdri@lemmy.world
          wrote last edited by
          #6

          If you are in such a position, it's only a matter of time for a friendly police officer to stop being friendly as soon as he sees any signs of your phone using encryption, or GrapheneOS, or being Pixel. You will get detained/interrogated/beaten/etc. and you will share all your secrets yourself. If they have those industrial devices and you allow them to take your property from you - an OS will most likely not help you.

          Instead of trusting OS to protect your data on your device from unauthorized users owning unknown toolset, it's better to make sure you have no data they might want from you, on your device.

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          • R rdri@lemmy.world

            If you are in such a position, it's only a matter of time for a friendly police officer to stop being friendly as soon as he sees any signs of your phone using encryption, or GrapheneOS, or being Pixel. You will get detained/interrogated/beaten/etc. and you will share all your secrets yourself. If they have those industrial devices and you allow them to take your property from you - an OS will most likely not help you.

            Instead of trusting OS to protect your data on your device from unauthorized users owning unknown toolset, it's better to make sure you have no data they might want from you, on your device.

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            jet@hackertalks.com
            wrote last edited by
            #7

            spyware is deployed remotely on journalist and protester phones... security is privacy.

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            • J jet@hackertalks.com

              spyware is deployed remotely on journalist and protester phones... security is privacy.

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              rdri@lemmy.world
              wrote last edited by
              #8

              So it's an OS for journalists now? For protesters? I'm not going to trust an OS that failed to save anyone from Meta, to save me from my government.

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              • R rdri@lemmy.world

                So it's an OS for journalists now? For protesters? I'm not going to trust an OS that failed to save anyone from Meta, to save me from my government.

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                jet@hackertalks.com
                wrote last edited by
                #9

                GrapeheneOS failed to save you from meta? how?

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                • J jet@hackertalks.com

                  GrapeheneOS failed to save you from meta? how?

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                  rdri@lemmy.world
                  wrote last edited by
                  #10

                  Link Preview Image
                  Meta and Yandex are de-anonymizing Android users’ web browsing identifiers - GrapheneOS Discussion Forum

                  GrapheneOS discussion forum

                  favicon

                  GrapheneOS Discussion Forum (discuss.grapheneos.org)

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                  • R rdri@lemmy.world

                    Link Preview Image
                    Meta and Yandex are de-anonymizing Android users’ web browsing identifiers - GrapheneOS Discussion Forum

                    GrapheneOS discussion forum

                    favicon

                    GrapheneOS Discussion Forum (discuss.grapheneos.org)

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                    jet@hackertalks.com
                    wrote last edited by jet@hackertalks.com
                    #11

                    Ok, so your issue isn't with GOS... this attack method exists all all known phones. IPC and specifically localhost connections are part of the general model of computers.

                    For instance this is exactly how discord hijacks clicks on computers (windows, apple, and linux)

                    There are mitigations for this specific type of attack, that you can implement on GOS (using a sockv5 enabled web browser, or blocking localhost connections) for instance.

                    And the second post in your own link:

                    By default our Vanadium browser disables the peer-to-peer aspect by only using server-based (proxied) connections.

                    So GOS out of the box is already hardened against the meta attack....

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                    • J jet@hackertalks.com

                      Ok, so your issue isn't with GOS... this attack method exists all all known phones. IPC and specifically localhost connections are part of the general model of computers.

                      For instance this is exactly how discord hijacks clicks on computers (windows, apple, and linux)

                      There are mitigations for this specific type of attack, that you can implement on GOS (using a sockv5 enabled web browser, or blocking localhost connections) for instance.

                      And the second post in your own link:

                      By default our Vanadium browser disables the peer-to-peer aspect by only using server-based (proxied) connections.

                      So GOS out of the box is already hardened against the meta attack....

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                      rdri@lemmy.world
                      wrote last edited by
                      #12

                      My issue is that someone who say they do everything they can to harden your device and improve security, fail at simple things. Like blocking such traffic at the OS level for all untrusted apps, or allowing installing untrusted apps at all. It's like they can't decide who their product is for. And users thinking they are getting more protected just because they switched to another OS, as a result.

                      Making security measures irrelevant is easy for police officers, for app makers, and for users too.

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                      • R rdri@lemmy.world

                        My issue is that someone who say they do everything they can to harden your device and improve security, fail at simple things. Like blocking such traffic at the OS level for all untrusted apps, or allowing installing untrusted apps at all. It's like they can't decide who their product is for. And users thinking they are getting more protected just because they switched to another OS, as a result.

                        Making security measures irrelevant is easy for police officers, for app makers, and for users too.

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                        jet@hackertalks.com
                        wrote last edited by jet@hackertalks.com
                        #13

                        and what ecosystem does better? this attack impacts EVERY KNOWN PHONE

                        GOS OUT OF THE BOX isn't vulnerable. That is not failing at simple things. That is good decision making.

                        GOS lets you decide what apps to trust... your in control, that is the whole point.

                        GOS is EXTREMELY clear about who their product is for

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                        • J jet@hackertalks.com

                          and what ecosystem does better? this attack impacts EVERY KNOWN PHONE

                          GOS OUT OF THE BOX isn't vulnerable. That is not failing at simple things. That is good decision making.

                          GOS lets you decide what apps to trust... your in control, that is the whole point.

                          GOS is EXTREMELY clear about who their product is for

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                          rdri@lemmy.world
                          wrote last edited by
                          #14

                          I'm not implying there are better ones. I mean that ways how "better" systems are being built, updated by developers, and how are they viewed by users, should make everyone question whether those are actually useful.

                          GOS lets you decide what apps to trust

                          But not what vendors to trust...

                          GOS is EXTREMELY clear about who their product is for

                          Clear... but apparently not loud enough because all I know is "for Google Pixel owners".

                          It's not like I even want to use GOS. I want to use something that cares about me as a user, more than the default experience with limited and forced aspects. It just happens that most people say Pixel is the best phone overall for now, and I can't ignore that.

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                          • R rdri@lemmy.world

                            I'm not implying there are better ones. I mean that ways how "better" systems are being built, updated by developers, and how are they viewed by users, should make everyone question whether those are actually useful.

                            GOS lets you decide what apps to trust

                            But not what vendors to trust...

                            GOS is EXTREMELY clear about who their product is for

                            Clear... but apparently not loud enough because all I know is "for Google Pixel owners".

                            It's not like I even want to use GOS. I want to use something that cares about me as a user, more than the default experience with limited and forced aspects. It just happens that most people say Pixel is the best phone overall for now, and I can't ignore that.

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                            jet@hackertalks.com
                            wrote last edited by
                            #15

                            Okay, you've lost me. What is your core objective?

                            Grapheneos aims to be the most secure phone out of the box. That means the least amount of risk surface out of the box. That means all the control to the user.

                            To accomplish this mission, graphene OS uses Pixel phones. Because they give the most control.

                            If you want to encourage other developers to make other phones, that's great. I actually support that. I'm looking forward to postmark os becoming mature.

                            For you to determine what vendors to trust, you have to have a good understanding of your personal risk model. What your threats are, and what you're willing to trade to mitigate those threats. By default, out of the box, there is no trust for any vendor in gos.

                            You as the user have a blank slate, a locked down phone, with minimal risk surface, and no preconceived notions. If you want to install the Google store, you can. If you want to use f Droid, you can. If you want to install apps directly from GitHub from developers that you trust you can. You have total control. That is what GOS gives you, total control

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