So what do we do now?
-
So what do we do now?
Warning: very long read
From the reddit post:
Link to the same lemmy post, in case Reddit takes it down:The release from Jan 31st has been crazy to me and I'm under the impression that it has shocked the Internet as a whole. I guess we can hardly summarize in general the implications of the files that have been shared by the DOJ so far, and that doesn't even include the (vast majority of) files that they have not been willing to share yet. This includes a large part of dataset 9 that has been cut short for everyone and isn't represented properly on the DOJ's website currently; the largest reported download of it falls at least 80GB short of its reported size(*).
In a meager attempt to sum up some of the core reasons why all Internet users are allowed to be pissed, here are the following facts:
- An incredible number of high-ranking politicians, officials, celebrities, businessmen, journalists and scientists have either been implied to have committed the same crimes as Epstein, or have at least known him well enough to reasonably suspect what he was doing and refused to report it. These individuals include: Donald Trump, Bill and Hillary Clinton, George Bush, Elon Musk, Bill Gates, Steve Bannon, several European royals, politicians from Saudi Arabia, Israel and Pakistan, Woody Allen, Leonardo DiCaprio, Kevin Spacey, Noam Chomsky, Stephen Hawking just to name a few.
- All of these individuals are still roaming our world in freedom, ruining it on a daily basis through whatever means exist within their power (i.e. some through investments in dystopic-ass looking corporations, others through dismantling democracies... not giving any names, yet). It is dead obvious that they don't have to answer for their crimes because of their tremendous power and wealth. Aside from that, there's no way we can be sure that the whole thing died with Epstein. In fact if there were so many high-ranking individuals involved, what's to stop them from finding another guy to fill up his space?
- American agencies have held these files for years or even decades and have never even tried either to sue any of these individuals, or to collect more evidence about the extent to which these individuals were involved.
- Instead, entities across the American government (and American corporations) have set up an enormous gaslighting campaign towards the public to shove this shit under the rug. It cannot be stated enough how deep this goes. Of course there is Trump going back and forth on whether he would release the files at all. Now that the DOJ has been cleansed by DOGE and receives pressure through lawsuits from the Trump administration, it is only after widespread public pressure (including from typically different Republican factions than MAGA) that the DOJ has slowly released obviously overredacted versions of the files, months beyond their deadline. The contents of even these heavily redacted files are sufficient to tell that there are a lot of loose ends.
- Probably the most devious part of this gaslighting campaign has been the revelation that Epstein knew moot and was involved in the creation of 4chan's 'politically incorrect' board /pol/. /pol/ from its inception has been regarded as the origin point of conspiracy theories associated with the far-right on the Internet, including: typical (neo-)Nazi propaganda about the Jewish conspiracy; man-made COVID-19; that stuff about the New World Order, WEF and George Soros; white replacement/white genocide and anti-Islamic conspiracies; gamergate; QAnon; and so on and so further. Conspiracy theories from /pol/ have spread over the Internet and have been at the very core of the MAGA movement since Trump started his political campaigns in 2014. The reason this is especially devious, is because QAnon at its core was literally about a deep state-ran global trafficking ring to serve a cabal of Satanic, cannibalistic child molesters.
- Trump specifically, according to QAnon, is supposed to secretly lead the fight against these child molesters. Except now that his loyalists are in charge of all 3 branches of government and he has loyalists at the head of the DOJ and FBI, he seems awfully reluctant to quickly get that information out there and very occupied distracting us from that fact by having US citizens terrorized by ICE, throwing geopolitical fits and selling more and more of the government out to oligarchs... Oh and let's not forget he sent Epstein's girlfriend to a lower-security prison in exchange for an audio fragment of her saying Trump wasn't involved. If his handling of it isn't suspicious enough, his name is all over the files. Trump has been accused of a number of athrocities, including having an infant drowned in Lake Michigan to get away with impregnating a 13 year old girl and many other claims of child sexual abuse towards other women. I could go on for a while about this, but this post is already long enough as it is. I do have to say I couldn't find a good archive of crimes specifically related to Trump from the Epstein files anywhere. I could only find it as a part of this list.
- We are also seeing more and more files with 'everyday communication' from the individuals related to Epstein, revealing how their personal interests intertwine with politics on the highest level. And I guess how these people commited schandals like the most ordinary thing in the world. For instance how weeks before the fall of Gaddafi, Epstein tried to get his hands on billions in Libyan frozen assets in cooperation with Mossad and MI6. Like it's mainly frustrating for me as a citizen to see that influential people just play around with those sums of money while a lot of people like me are struggling more and more just to get by. I guess it's just very obvious all of a sudden that it really is all one big club and we ain't in it, regardless of what I mentioned before about those NWO/WEF conspiracies. Just before anyone starts about these Mossad ties and the Jewish conspiracy though, I want to be very clear that criticism of the Israeli government has nothing to do with a general hatred for the entire Jewish population. Just in case someone wants to throw Israel's favourite strawman.
- And all of this is not to mention the specific individuals that can be pinned down for their actions.
- Good, I could go on, but I think this does kinda capture the core of it.
===========================
Back to my main question: what do we do now?
And I would suggest to take matters into our own hands as much as we can: organise, coordinate and add pressure.
Organisation because the authorities have barely shown to do this for us. Aside from that, this ring operates internationally and exceeds the power of national borders. We really gotta see this as an international effort.
Coordinate because it would take one person years to read through every file (assuming 1 minute per page, 24/7/365). We'll need coordination to assemble the files in such a way that they can serve as proof against each involved individual. And we need a way to spread the word.
And by adding pressure I mean to leverage our power in numbers. I'm not here to incite violence. The thing is, a government needs to legitimise itself against its people, be they a democracy or an authoritarian state. There's always leverage you can exert via the courts and media, if you have enough to back it up.
To state the obvious, we need a database for all this.
Now, I do realize that the scale of this undertaking is massive and I won't claim to have all the answers. But I've also begun to appreciate how well people can cooperate without any leader. I'm mainly looking for a group of people who are willing to lay down the right infrastructure of all this in such a way that we can safely work towards the goal of actually holding people accountable, and maybe try to heal the world a little from these people.
===========================
In this section are a couple of my own suggestions.
Most important is some form of ordering in the files. The current way in which they're just numbered by the DOJ is ambiguous as hell. I'd suggest going by the names mentioned in the files. Specifically for each person we want to know each time they were mentioned in a file with the filename, what they did and at what time. And we can rate to what extent it is proof: decisive, indecisive, accusation, yes/no backup material, etc. Also on the topic of ordering, we're definitely going to need some sort of dictionary for the code language they used. I can't imagine 'pizza' as a term for 'child' was their only codeword.
As for the workflow, we need to at least be able to determine which files have been seen and which haven't. Preferably some of the magic I've seen people do where they uncover redacted material to discover hidden names (which might also include other offenders the DOJ is trying to protect). We need a way to discover which names have been mentioned in which files. And then decide for each person what they've done according to their attached files and to what extent they're relevant, as mentioned in the previous paragraph.
Some peer-to-peer standard is by far the safest option. A centralized server like Discord or Reddit can erase your entire community and all of its work with one press of a button (and we've seen Reddit do this in recent days). Any homeserver for obvious reasons is a giant risk for the host. I've been introduced into the Fediverse recently but I'm struggling to find out which service would be appropriate. Imo Lemmy and Streams seem most so, but neither of them really allow users to cooperate (e.g. on the same name in the files). What might work is an environment with multiple Lemmy's, one which mimics the r/Epstein subreddit (which we already have) and another one that is restricted to posts per individual, which funnels into a single post about that person. We'd also probably need a few more for the data miners and to coordinate which files have been reviewed at all and which haven't. If we wanna go the next level, we shouldn't forget ActivityPub is an open standard and we could build an app of our own on top of that. Also to state the obvious, we really need to properly conceal our identities if we're going to do this.
And then we really need to get the word out on the people involved. Like for starters it should be as convenient as possible for 'outsiders' to see what we have discovered so far. Jmail already does a very good job at this but it could be taken a step further in this direction. I also noticed there are some journalists around the subreddit and Discord that could be very important for all this.
Lastly, I'm going to play the devil's advocate here, but hear me out. We may find an unexpected ally in some Q followers. Not the hard core of 4chan trolls and neonazis that have now joined ICE to terrorize or straight-up execute all their adversaries, they're cooked already. I mean some of the former moderate voters that wound up in there out of sheer distrust towards the government, r/QAnonCasualties material. Turns out they might have been right for some part, except that Trump and his allies have tried to get away with it through this weird-ass deceptive reverse psychology. Perhaps if those moderate followers could browse the files in such a way that everything is laid out clear for them, some of them may realize to what extent they personally have been manipulated by those divide-and-conquer politics. No need to spare anyone; why would they second-guess us laying out the misdeeds of the likes of Trump and Elon Musk in there if we also reported on the Clintons and Bill Gates. Speaking from personal experience, I've been enstranged from a Q family member for a couple of years now because of their political beliefs. I took my distance initially because there was no point in discussing politics anymore. But I would honestly give this a shot.
I'll admit that it may be overly optimistic, first because it requires at least some level of reflective ability and some Qs just seem to have stopped thinking for themselves altogether. And the way I see it, Q is more about establishing that the other side is much worse than that your own side is morally righteous. So it might boil down to "the pedophile I wanted in office is a better person than the pedophile you voted for". Or they double-down on their conspiracism and say the deepstate has decided to throw Clinton and Bill Gates and such under the bus in a final blow to Trump. Like whatever, I don't even know what to expect anymore. I will say though, I understand that a Q detox doesn't necessarily heal let alone absolve these people of years or even decades of racist, sexist and homophobic behaviour, and I do consider any of those disadvantaged groups (ethnic minorities, women/feminists, LGBTQ+ members) my allies above Q any day of the week. I'm just kinda hoping they'll at least learn their lesson not to buy into any fallacious nightmare they encounter on the internet and maybe take it with a grain of sand every so often, that'd be progress against these reactionary movements at least.
But I digress.
===========================
Before rouding up, I'll continue this both here and on Reddit/Lemmy (so long as Reddit doesn't take me offline) and, if they're up for it, the Discord server associated with r/Epstein. Please send a DM on either platform if you're interested. I'll set up a burner email and get to work from there.
===========================
P.S.
*) In case you have missed out, torrent magnets for all datasets 1-12 have been shared on r/Datahoarder and its Lemmy counterpart. The advantage of these torrents is that they contain generally older versions of the files, so there's a good chance you'll find fewer redactions in there. In case you don't have like 400GB to spare on your PC, jmail.world is a browser-based alternative where you can access all the files as well.**) By the way, I have no history of suicidal ideation. In fact the whole Epstein files revelation has restored some long-lost hope I had for humanity and only makes me wanna live more right now. So DOJ and FBI, just spare me this once will you? I'm not to blame for that your psy-op fell apart, that's on yourselves. Take some accountability now.
-
So what do we do now?
Warning: very long read
From the reddit post:
Link to the same lemmy post, in case Reddit takes it down:The release from Jan 31st has been crazy to me and I'm under the impression that it has shocked the Internet as a whole. I guess we can hardly summarize in general the implications of the files that have been shared by the DOJ so far, and that doesn't even include the (vast majority of) files that they have not been willing to share yet. This includes a large part of dataset 9 that has been cut short for everyone and isn't represented properly on the DOJ's website currently; the largest reported download of it falls at least 80GB short of its reported size(*).
In a meager attempt to sum up some of the core reasons why all Internet users are allowed to be pissed, here are the following facts:
- An incredible number of high-ranking politicians, officials, celebrities, businessmen, journalists and scientists have either been implied to have committed the same crimes as Epstein, or have at least known him well enough to reasonably suspect what he was doing and refused to report it. These individuals include: Donald Trump, Bill and Hillary Clinton, George Bush, Elon Musk, Bill Gates, Steve Bannon, several European royals, politicians from Saudi Arabia, Israel and Pakistan, Woody Allen, Leonardo DiCaprio, Kevin Spacey, Noam Chomsky, Stephen Hawking just to name a few.
- All of these individuals are still roaming our world in freedom, ruining it on a daily basis through whatever means exist within their power (i.e. some through investments in dystopic-ass looking corporations, others through dismantling democracies... not giving any names, yet). It is dead obvious that they don't have to answer for their crimes because of their tremendous power and wealth. Aside from that, there's no way we can be sure that the whole thing died with Epstein. In fact if there were so many high-ranking individuals involved, what's to stop them from finding another guy to fill up his space?
- American agencies have held these files for years or even decades and have never even tried either to sue any of these individuals, or to collect more evidence about the extent to which these individuals were involved.
- Instead, entities across the American government (and American corporations) have set up an enormous gaslighting campaign towards the public to shove this shit under the rug. It cannot be stated enough how deep this goes. Of course there is Trump going back and forth on whether he would release the files at all. Now that the DOJ has been cleansed by DOGE and receives pressure through lawsuits from the Trump administration, it is only after widespread public pressure (including from typically different Republican factions than MAGA) that the DOJ has slowly released obviously overredacted versions of the files, months beyond their deadline. The contents of even these heavily redacted files are sufficient to tell that there are a lot of loose ends.
- Probably the most devious part of this gaslighting campaign has been the revelation that Epstein knew moot and was involved in the creation of 4chan's 'politically incorrect' board /pol/. /pol/ from its inception has been regarded as the origin point of conspiracy theories associated with the far-right on the Internet, including: typical (neo-)Nazi propaganda about the Jewish conspiracy; man-made COVID-19; that stuff about the New World Order, WEF and George Soros; white replacement/white genocide and anti-Islamic conspiracies; gamergate; QAnon; and so on and so further. Conspiracy theories from /pol/ have spread over the Internet and have been at the very core of the MAGA movement since Trump started his political campaigns in 2014. The reason this is especially devious, is because QAnon at its core was literally about a deep state-ran global trafficking ring to serve a cabal of Satanic, cannibalistic child molesters.
- Trump specifically, according to QAnon, is supposed to secretly lead the fight against these child molesters. Except now that his loyalists are in charge of all 3 branches of government and he has loyalists at the head of the DOJ and FBI, he seems awfully reluctant to quickly get that information out there and very occupied distracting us from that fact by having US citizens terrorized by ICE, throwing geopolitical fits and selling more and more of the government out to oligarchs... Oh and let's not forget he sent Epstein's girlfriend to a lower-security prison in exchange for an audio fragment of her saying Trump wasn't involved. If his handling of it isn't suspicious enough, his name is all over the files. Trump has been accused of a number of athrocities, including having an infant drowned in Lake Michigan to get away with impregnating a 13 year old girl and many other claims of child sexual abuse towards other women. I could go on for a while about this, but this post is already long enough as it is. I do have to say I couldn't find a good archive of crimes specifically related to Trump from the Epstein files anywhere. I could only find it as a part of this list.
- We are also seeing more and more files with 'everyday communication' from the individuals related to Epstein, revealing how their personal interests intertwine with politics on the highest level. And I guess how these people commited schandals like the most ordinary thing in the world. For instance how weeks before the fall of Gaddafi, Epstein tried to get his hands on billions in Libyan frozen assets in cooperation with Mossad and MI6. Like it's mainly frustrating for me as a citizen to see that influential people just play around with those sums of money while a lot of people like me are struggling more and more just to get by. I guess it's just very obvious all of a sudden that it really is all one big club and we ain't in it, regardless of what I mentioned before about those NWO/WEF conspiracies. Just before anyone starts about these Mossad ties and the Jewish conspiracy though, I want to be very clear that criticism of the Israeli government has nothing to do with a general hatred for the entire Jewish population. Just in case someone wants to throw Israel's favourite strawman.
- And all of this is not to mention the specific individuals that can be pinned down for their actions.
- Good, I could go on, but I think this does kinda capture the core of it.
===========================
Back to my main question: what do we do now?
And I would suggest to take matters into our own hands as much as we can: organise, coordinate and add pressure.
Organisation because the authorities have barely shown to do this for us. Aside from that, this ring operates internationally and exceeds the power of national borders. We really gotta see this as an international effort.
Coordinate because it would take one person years to read through every file (assuming 1 minute per page, 24/7/365). We'll need coordination to assemble the files in such a way that they can serve as proof against each involved individual. And we need a way to spread the word.
And by adding pressure I mean to leverage our power in numbers. I'm not here to incite violence. The thing is, a government needs to legitimise itself against its people, be they a democracy or an authoritarian state. There's always leverage you can exert via the courts and media, if you have enough to back it up.
To state the obvious, we need a database for all this.
Now, I do realize that the scale of this undertaking is massive and I won't claim to have all the answers. But I've also begun to appreciate how well people can cooperate without any leader. I'm mainly looking for a group of people who are willing to lay down the right infrastructure of all this in such a way that we can safely work towards the goal of actually holding people accountable, and maybe try to heal the world a little from these people.
===========================
In this section are a couple of my own suggestions.
Most important is some form of ordering in the files. The current way in which they're just numbered by the DOJ is ambiguous as hell. I'd suggest going by the names mentioned in the files. Specifically for each person we want to know each time they were mentioned in a file with the filename, what they did and at what time. And we can rate to what extent it is proof: decisive, indecisive, accusation, yes/no backup material, etc. Also on the topic of ordering, we're definitely going to need some sort of dictionary for the code language they used. I can't imagine 'pizza' as a term for 'child' was their only codeword.
As for the workflow, we need to at least be able to determine which files have been seen and which haven't. Preferably some of the magic I've seen people do where they uncover redacted material to discover hidden names (which might also include other offenders the DOJ is trying to protect). We need a way to discover which names have been mentioned in which files. And then decide for each person what they've done according to their attached files and to what extent they're relevant, as mentioned in the previous paragraph.
Some peer-to-peer standard is by far the safest option. A centralized server like Discord or Reddit can erase your entire community and all of its work with one press of a button (and we've seen Reddit do this in recent days). Any homeserver for obvious reasons is a giant risk for the host. I've been introduced into the Fediverse recently but I'm struggling to find out which service would be appropriate. Imo Lemmy and Streams seem most so, but neither of them really allow users to cooperate (e.g. on the same name in the files). What might work is an environment with multiple Lemmy's, one which mimics the r/Epstein subreddit (which we already have) and another one that is restricted to posts per individual, which funnels into a single post about that person. We'd also probably need a few more for the data miners and to coordinate which files have been reviewed at all and which haven't. If we wanna go the next level, we shouldn't forget ActivityPub is an open standard and we could build an app of our own on top of that. Also to state the obvious, we really need to properly conceal our identities if we're going to do this.
And then we really need to get the word out on the people involved. Like for starters it should be as convenient as possible for 'outsiders' to see what we have discovered so far. Jmail already does a very good job at this but it could be taken a step further in this direction. I also noticed there are some journalists around the subreddit and Discord that could be very important for all this.
Lastly, I'm going to play the devil's advocate here, but hear me out. We may find an unexpected ally in some Q followers. Not the hard core of 4chan trolls and neonazis that have now joined ICE to terrorize or straight-up execute all their adversaries, they're cooked already. I mean some of the former moderate voters that wound up in there out of sheer distrust towards the government, r/QAnonCasualties material. Turns out they might have been right for some part, except that Trump and his allies have tried to get away with it through this weird-ass deceptive reverse psychology. Perhaps if those moderate followers could browse the files in such a way that everything is laid out clear for them, some of them may realize to what extent they personally have been manipulated by those divide-and-conquer politics. No need to spare anyone; why would they second-guess us laying out the misdeeds of the likes of Trump and Elon Musk in there if we also reported on the Clintons and Bill Gates. Speaking from personal experience, I've been enstranged from a Q family member for a couple of years now because of their political beliefs. I took my distance initially because there was no point in discussing politics anymore. But I would honestly give this a shot.
I'll admit that it may be overly optimistic, first because it requires at least some level of reflective ability and some Qs just seem to have stopped thinking for themselves altogether. And the way I see it, Q is more about establishing that the other side is much worse than that your own side is morally righteous. So it might boil down to "the pedophile I wanted in office is a better person than the pedophile you voted for". Or they double-down on their conspiracism and say the deepstate has decided to throw Clinton and Bill Gates and such under the bus in a final blow to Trump. Like whatever, I don't even know what to expect anymore. I will say though, I understand that a Q detox doesn't necessarily heal let alone absolve these people of years or even decades of racist, sexist and homophobic behaviour, and I do consider any of those disadvantaged groups (ethnic minorities, women/feminists, LGBTQ+ members) my allies above Q any day of the week. I'm just kinda hoping they'll at least learn their lesson not to buy into any fallacious nightmare they encounter on the internet and maybe take it with a grain of sand every so often, that'd be progress against these reactionary movements at least.
But I digress.
===========================
Before rouding up, I'll continue this both here and on Reddit/Lemmy (so long as Reddit doesn't take me offline) and, if they're up for it, the Discord server associated with r/Epstein. Please send a DM on either platform if you're interested. I'll set up a burner email and get to work from there.
===========================
P.S.
*) In case you have missed out, torrent magnets for all datasets 1-12 have been shared on r/Datahoarder and its Lemmy counterpart. The advantage of these torrents is that they contain generally older versions of the files, so there's a good chance you'll find fewer redactions in there. In case you don't have like 400GB to spare on your PC, jmail.world is a browser-based alternative where you can access all the files as well.**) By the way, I have no history of suicidal ideation. In fact the whole Epstein files revelation has restored some long-lost hope I had for humanity and only makes me wanna live more right now. So DOJ and FBI, just spare me this once will you? I'm not to blame for that your psy-op fell apart, that's on yourselves. Take some accountability now.
Fuck Reddit and Fuck Spez.
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