Banned for pointing out anti-vegan trolls past behaviour
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In short
I got a reply from a prolific anti-vegan troll and referred them back to an
earlier conversation we had. Got banned for "harassment" and "following
someone around" when in fact they replied to me and keep following vegans
around when they post against anti-vegan propaganda.The 14-day ban and comment removals by @aeronmelon@lemmy.world:
https://lem.lemmy.blahaj.zone/modlog/45638?page=1&actionType=All&modId=6106918&userId=18352111
And the posts in question:
The comments when I posted them rendered as
Oh hey its you
The link is to a discussion which expanded is this here (The link goes to the comment with the highlighted star):
With background
@commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com is a very dedicated anti-vegan troll
whos trolling style Sartre best described for anti-semites:Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity
of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to
challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who
is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The
anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with
discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the
seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith,
since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and
disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall
silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is
past.Indeed they constantly make non-sequitur claims as replies to vegans, in
the hopes of roping then into a defensive position under the guise of
"debate". Should someone engage them, they will use every sealioning,
debatebro tactic in the book to tire her self-declared opponent out. No source is ever good enough, no proof ever strict enough etc. But
when pressed to defend a claim they made they will promptly drop the
conversation.To exemplify this I engaged with them a couple months ago and got a perfect
showcase of their behaviour. I
had never used this and have never replied to them since then (at least I
don't remember that I have and searching didn't turn anything up). But then
when they replied to me yesterday I did. And got promptly banned for
"harassment" and "following someone around". I messaged the mod who banned
me to no reply.Their behaviour is being enabled by lemmy.world mods like
@aeronmelon@lemmy.world who will readily delete comments made by
vegans should they dare step a foot outside of the norms of "civilized
debate", like e.g. in the same thread (1) and (2). The petulant
and incessant trolling by @commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com is of course never
subject to such moderation actions. And by incessant I really do mean
that, they will turn up in every larger discussion about veganism.To any vegan comrades, do not engage this troll, you risk getting banned and your comments deleted. It's not worth it, this person chooses and is committed to being blind. Antiveganism is a declared mission of theirs.
Apparently I used wrong account to post this. Will have to switch accounts to my blahaj account on occasion to reply to comments, apologies.
___ -
In short
I got a reply from a prolific anti-vegan troll and referred them back to an
earlier conversation we had. Got banned for "harassment" and "following
someone around" when in fact they replied to me and keep following vegans
around when they post against anti-vegan propaganda.The 14-day ban and comment removals by @aeronmelon@lemmy.world:
https://lem.lemmy.blahaj.zone/modlog/45638?page=1&actionType=All&modId=6106918&userId=18352111And the posts in question:
The comments when I posted them rendered as
Oh hey its you
The link is to a discussion which expanded is this here (The link goes to the comment with the highlighted star):
With background
@commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com is a very dedicated anti-vegan troll
whos trolling style Sartre best described for anti-semites:Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity
of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to
challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who
is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The
anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with
discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the
seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith,
since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and
disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall
silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is
past.Indeed they constantly make non-sequitur claims as replies to vegans, in
the hopes of roping then into a defensive position under the guise of
"debate". Should someone engage them, they will use every sealioning,
debatebro tactic in the book to tire her self-declared opponent out. No source is ever good enough, no proof ever strict enough etc. But
when pressed to defend a claim they made they will promptly drop the
conversation.To exemplify this I engaged with them a couple months ago and got a perfect
showcase of their behaviour. I
had never used this and have never replied to them since then (at least I
don't remember that I have and searching didn't turn anything up). But then
when they replied to me yesterday I did. And got promptly banned for
"harassment" and "following someone around". I messaged the mod who banned
me to no reply.Their behaviour is being enabled by lemmy.world mods like
@aeronmelon@lemmy.world who will readily delete comments made by
vegans should they dare step a foot outside of the norms of "civilized
debate", like e.g. in the same thread (1) and (2). The petulant
and incessant trolling by @commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com is of course never
subject to such moderation actions. And by incessant I really do mean
that, they will turn up in every larger discussion about veganism.To any vegan comrades, do not engage this troll, you risk getting banned and your comments deleted. It's not worth it, this person chooses and is committed to being blind. Antiveganism is a declared mission of theirs.
Apparently I used wrong account to post this. Will have to switch accounts to my blahaj account on occasion to reply to comments, apologies.
___It's clear your very passionate. But your coming across as combative and looking for a fight.
Oh no why won’t the corpsemunchers like me 😢
REALLY looking for a fight.
As someone who has often dipped my toes into this very debate - most people are not looking for a actual discussion - they just want to win. I think this includes you too
No source is ever good enough, no proof ever strict enough etc.
If only there were people who had standards for the evidence they will consider.... https://hackertalks.com/post/15439661
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It's clear your very passionate. But your coming across as combative and looking for a fight.
Oh no why won’t the corpsemunchers like me 😢
REALLY looking for a fight.
As someone who has often dipped my toes into this very debate - most people are not looking for a actual discussion - they just want to win. I think this includes you too
No source is ever good enough, no proof ever strict enough etc.
If only there were people who had standards for the evidence they will consider.... https://hackertalks.com/post/15439661
That was in direct reply to "Which is probably why no one cares about outspoken vegans". This is a classic blindspot for many nonvegans where the ridicule and rude dismissal of vegans is so normalized it doesn't track as offensive.
Imagine someone saying "that's why no one cares about outspoken anti-trump activists", I think a clapback along the lines of "oh no why won't the fascists like me 😢" would read quite differently to other antifascists than to the fascists who would certainly see it as the replier provoking and not the other way around.
And no, my point isn't to "win" a debate, which is why I rarely engage in debating behavior. I want to push back against popaganda, to make vegan voices heard and to not leave carnist propaganda unchallenged.
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That was in direct reply to "Which is probably why no one cares about outspoken vegans". This is a classic blindspot for many nonvegans where the ridicule and rude dismissal of vegans is so normalized it doesn't track as offensive.
Imagine someone saying "that's why no one cares about outspoken anti-trump activists", I think a clapback along the lines of "oh no why won't the fascists like me 😢" would read quite differently to other antifascists than to the fascists who would certainly see it as the replier provoking and not the other way around.
And no, my point isn't to "win" a debate, which is why I rarely engage in debating behavior. I want to push back against popaganda, to make vegan voices heard and to not leave carnist propaganda unchallenged.
So insulting a entire demographic of people is fine so long as one of them offended you first? That is why your coming off as combative.
As someone who wants to talk about the benefits of a zero carb diet (carnivore), I've been called many nasty things along these lines... they are rhetorical tools used in anger when argument arent available (either due to emotion or attempting to "win")
And no, my point isn't to "win" a debate, which is why I rarely engage in debating behavior. I want to push back against popaganda, to make vegan voices heard and to not leave carnist propaganda unchallenged.
Great, I invite you to make a post in !carnivore@discuss.online to educate us on our propaganda problems (as long as you can engage in polite productive discussions suitable for a work environment)
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So insulting a entire demographic of people is fine so long as one of them offended you first? That is why your coming off as combative.
As someone who wants to talk about the benefits of a zero carb diet (carnivore), I've been called many nasty things along these lines... they are rhetorical tools used in anger when argument arent available (either due to emotion or attempting to "win")
And no, my point isn't to "win" a debate, which is why I rarely engage in debating behavior. I want to push back against popaganda, to make vegan voices heard and to not leave carnist propaganda unchallenged.
Great, I invite you to make a post in !carnivore@discuss.online to educate us on our propaganda problems (as long as you can engage in polite productive discussions suitable for a work environment)
What about insulting an entire demographic without even being prompted? That's the double standard I am talking about here. That somehow always goes unmentioned, unchallenged unless a vegan responds in kind.
Thats the point to these "insults", to push back against this language in a way that won't have us limited by "rational, civilized" discourse while the antivegans are allowed to run roughshod with insults and jokes about us. It is an uneven playfield and the rules work against us, so I won't play by them. An added bonus is of course that the "shocked and appalled" reactions give great opportunity to show the inherent antivegan bias in standard discourse like I am doing now or you can witness in the comment chain directly below said comment.
There is a reason to the madness and it's not just for self-gratification 😄
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What about insulting an entire demographic without even being prompted? That's the double standard I am talking about here. That somehow always goes unmentioned, unchallenged unless a vegan responds in kind.
Thats the point to these "insults", to push back against this language in a way that won't have us limited by "rational, civilized" discourse while the antivegans are allowed to run roughshod with insults and jokes about us. It is an uneven playfield and the rules work against us, so I won't play by them. An added bonus is of course that the "shocked and appalled" reactions give great opportunity to show the inherent antivegan bias in standard discourse like I am doing now or you can witness in the comment chain directly below said comment.
There is a reason to the madness and it's not just for self-gratification 😄
What about insulting an entire demographic without even being prompted?
Eye for an eye leaves the world blind.
limited by “rational, civilized” discourse while the antivegans are allowed to run roughshod with insults and jokes about us.
There are 75, SEVENTY FIVE, vegan communities on lemmy last I checked, there is no lack of representation.
It is an uneven playfield and the rules work against us, so I won’t play by them.
Right, so you just want to fight, and break community rules and that is why the ban is YDI.
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What about insulting an entire demographic without even being prompted?
Eye for an eye leaves the world blind.
limited by “rational, civilized” discourse while the antivegans are allowed to run roughshod with insults and jokes about us.
There are 75, SEVENTY FIVE, vegan communities on lemmy last I checked, there is no lack of representation.
It is an uneven playfield and the rules work against us, so I won’t play by them.
Right, so you just want to fight, and break community rules and that is why the ban is YDI.
Look at the standard lemmy feed or comment section and tell me that there is vegan overpresentation. There is much higher vegan representation on lemmy than usual which is probably why it seems like there is, but the standard jokes and insults still get played out to a regular degree.
Right, so you just want to fight, and break community rules and that is why the ban is YDI.
Not what I said. I want to (among other things) point out the inherent antivegan bias in standard discourse and one tool to demonstrate it is returning some of the language directed at us. I am not looking for a fight for the sake of fighting (edit: and would say I'm not the one instigating it) and I have no intention of breaking community rules. Furthermore none of this adds up to stalker behavior, the main allegation against me.
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Look at the standard lemmy feed or comment section and tell me that there is vegan overpresentation. There is much higher vegan representation on lemmy than usual which is probably why it seems like there is, but the standard jokes and insults still get played out to a regular degree.
Right, so you just want to fight, and break community rules and that is why the ban is YDI.
Not what I said. I want to (among other things) point out the inherent antivegan bias in standard discourse and one tool to demonstrate it is returning some of the language directed at us. I am not looking for a fight for the sake of fighting (edit: and would say I'm not the one instigating it) and I have no intention of breaking community rules. Furthermore none of this adds up to stalker behavior, the main allegation against me.
There is much higher vegan representation on lemmy than usual which is probably why it seems like there is, but the standard jokes and insults still get played out to a regular degree.
I would like to point out you have been joking and insulting me in your other comments(not responding to me directly), yet I don't reciprocate.
inherent antivegan bias in standard discourse
Honestly, I feel this. Zero Carb gets the SAD people, the Omnivores, and the pbf people taking shots at you... So i understand what its like to have a niche opinion that gets immediately criticized.
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It's clear your very passionate. But your coming across as combative and looking for a fight.
Oh no why won’t the corpsemunchers like me 😢
REALLY looking for a fight.
As someone who has often dipped my toes into this very debate - most people are not looking for a actual discussion - they just want to win. I think this includes you too
No source is ever good enough, no proof ever strict enough etc.
If only there were people who had standards for the evidence they will consider.... https://hackertalks.com/post/15439661
well look who it is
don't engage with this notorious "carnivore diet" promoter.
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well look who it is
don't engage with this notorious "carnivore diet" promoter.
Oh this person is a known as well? Thanks for the heads up.
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Oh this person is a known as well? Thanks for the heads up.
They aren't merely an unconscious carnist, they are extremely psychologically invested in practicing cruelty and violence with intent. They are fucked in the head real real bad. They will take a "reasonable tone" and pretend to be the mature party, but everything they say is twisted into bad faith, and I can't even tell if they know they do it.
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They aren't merely an unconscious carnist, they are extremely psychologically invested in practicing cruelty and violence with intent. They are fucked in the head real real bad. They will take a "reasonable tone" and pretend to be the mature party, but everything they say is twisted into bad faith, and I can't even tell if they know they do it.
extremely psychologically invested in practicing cruelty and violence with intent.
Assuming intent.
They are fucked in the head real real bad
Bad Faith, Ad hominem
They will take a “reasonable tone” and pretend to be the mature party
Because I am, I love to read and discuss. Our attempts at mutual discussion end up with you just going into this name calling.
everything they say is twisted into bad faith, and I can’t even tell if they know they do it.
Nothing I do is in bad faith. I have opinions and I admit they may be wrong. I'm open to evidence and discussion to find a better optimal approach to health.
Honestly all these personal attacks are wearisome and its easy to see why moderators start painting with a broad brush
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