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  3. Bitcoin is great for the environment in the long run

Bitcoin is great for the environment in the long run

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  • B bbsm3678@lemmy.world

    Bitcoin wastes a lot of energy. I agree. It is basically a mechanism to turn energy into something analogous to money.

    However, people do not generally live where there is a lot of potential to generate green energy. Wind, solar, geothermal, nuclear all generally work best far away from heavily populated areas (this is not always the case). Additionally, wind + solar are highly variable.

    Per unit of energy renewable energy will always be more cost effective than fossil fuels in the long run, but there is a high fixed cost at present.

    The more sources that can consume energy in remote areas the more incentives there are to build renewable energy sources.

    Thus cryptocurrencies like bitcoin are a net positive for building green energy sources in the long term.

    O This user is from outside of this forum
    O This user is from outside of this forum
    over_clox@lemmy.world
    wrote last edited by
    #3

    Alright, I'll skip right past the energy consumption issue of crypto and AI and the like..

    Riddle me this...

    If the future is supposed to be an entirely digital world, where only adults can have accounts (18 or 21 years old or whatever), then 5 year olds won't even have the right to go buy a simple candy bar, and high school students won't have any financial experience to even get started in life after they graduate.

    So what future is there in crypto?

    Link Preview Image
    Web3 is Going Just Great

    A timeline recording only some of the many disasters happening in crypto, decentralized finance, NFTs, and other blockchain-based projects.

    favicon

    (www.web3isgoinggreat.com)

    Personal opinion, crypto is nothing but scammer garbage.

    J 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • B bbsm3678@lemmy.world

      Bitcoin wastes a lot of energy. I agree. It is basically a mechanism to turn energy into something analogous to money.

      However, people do not generally live where there is a lot of potential to generate green energy. Wind, solar, geothermal, nuclear all generally work best far away from heavily populated areas (this is not always the case). Additionally, wind + solar are highly variable.

      Per unit of energy renewable energy will always be more cost effective than fossil fuels in the long run, but there is a high fixed cost at present.

      The more sources that can consume energy in remote areas the more incentives there are to build renewable energy sources.

      Thus cryptocurrencies like bitcoin are a net positive for building green energy sources in the long term.

      muntedcrocodile@hilariouschaos.comM This user is from outside of this forum
      muntedcrocodile@hilariouschaos.comM This user is from outside of this forum
      muntedcrocodile@hilariouschaos.com
      wrote last edited by
      #4

      It also provides the ability for the grid to instantly shed load effectively bringing new capacity online instantly. It effectively operates as a battery making unreliable renewables more viable on the grid.

      O 1 Reply Last reply
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      • muntedcrocodile@hilariouschaos.comM muntedcrocodile@hilariouschaos.com

        It also provides the ability for the grid to instantly shed load effectively bringing new capacity online instantly. It effectively operates as a battery making unreliable renewables more viable on the grid.

        O This user is from outside of this forum
        O This user is from outside of this forum
        over_clox@lemmy.world
        wrote last edited by
        #5

        Well that was an interesting word salad. Care to elaborate?

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        • O over_clox@lemmy.world

          Well that was an interesting word salad. Care to elaborate?

          J This user is from outside of this forum
          J This user is from outside of this forum
          jet@hackertalks.com
          wrote last edited by
          #6

          Producing electricity is difficult, turning on and off generators is slow, if demand dips rapidly then that energy has to go SOMEWHERE. Sometimes this is called load shedding.

          So if you have a low priority bitcoin farm that can consume lots of load - you can use it to keep the generation / demand curve flat. This makes it easier to turn off and on generators. This also creates a greater economic incentive to make more stable green energy since there is consistent demand.

          O muntedcrocodile@hilariouschaos.comM 2 Replies Last reply
          0
          • O over_clox@lemmy.world

            Alright, I'll skip right past the energy consumption issue of crypto and AI and the like..

            Riddle me this...

            If the future is supposed to be an entirely digital world, where only adults can have accounts (18 or 21 years old or whatever), then 5 year olds won't even have the right to go buy a simple candy bar, and high school students won't have any financial experience to even get started in life after they graduate.

            So what future is there in crypto?

            Link Preview Image
            Web3 is Going Just Great

            A timeline recording only some of the many disasters happening in crypto, decentralized finance, NFTs, and other blockchain-based projects.

            favicon

            (www.web3isgoinggreat.com)

            Personal opinion, crypto is nothing but scammer garbage.

            J This user is from outside of this forum
            J This user is from outside of this forum
            jet@hackertalks.com
            wrote last edited by
            #7

            where only adults can have accounts (18 or 21 years old or whatever), then 5 year olds won’t even have the right to go buy a simple candy bar, and high school students won’t have any financial experience to even get started in life after they graduate.

            That's like saying only adults are allowed to use money. In a world with digital money, of course children will have to be able to use digital money.

            O 1 Reply Last reply
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            • J jet@hackertalks.com

              Producing electricity is difficult, turning on and off generators is slow, if demand dips rapidly then that energy has to go SOMEWHERE. Sometimes this is called load shedding.

              So if you have a low priority bitcoin farm that can consume lots of load - you can use it to keep the generation / demand curve flat. This makes it easier to turn off and on generators. This also creates a greater economic incentive to make more stable green energy since there is consistent demand.

              O This user is from outside of this forum
              O This user is from outside of this forum
              over_clox@lemmy.world
              wrote last edited by
              #8

              So, your logic is that generating more energy demand will create more incentive for green energy..?

              Have you ever worked for an oil company, even as a simple oil change pit worker?

              Them oil companies couldn't give a flying fuck less about the environment, and they actively fight against green energy.

              Disclaimer: I only worked for an oil company for about 5 months, back in 2005, and I do not approve of big oil trying to smother green energy technology.

              Regardless, that's unfortunately how shit still works.

              J 1 Reply Last reply
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              • J jet@hackertalks.com

                where only adults can have accounts (18 or 21 years old or whatever), then 5 year olds won’t even have the right to go buy a simple candy bar, and high school students won’t have any financial experience to even get started in life after they graduate.

                That's like saying only adults are allowed to use money. In a world with digital money, of course children will have to be able to use digital money.

                O This user is from outside of this forum
                O This user is from outside of this forum
                over_clox@lemmy.world
                wrote last edited by
                #9

                Show me evidence that children are allowed to use crypto, or that they can even remember enough of the alphabet to remember their password..

                J 1 Reply Last reply
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                • J jet@hackertalks.com

                  Producing electricity is difficult, turning on and off generators is slow, if demand dips rapidly then that energy has to go SOMEWHERE. Sometimes this is called load shedding.

                  So if you have a low priority bitcoin farm that can consume lots of load - you can use it to keep the generation / demand curve flat. This makes it easier to turn off and on generators. This also creates a greater economic incentive to make more stable green energy since there is consistent demand.

                  muntedcrocodile@hilariouschaos.comM This user is from outside of this forum
                  muntedcrocodile@hilariouschaos.comM This user is from outside of this forum
                  muntedcrocodile@hilariouschaos.com
                  wrote last edited by
                  #10

                  Not just this but if supply dips or demand goes up rapidly then the miners can stop mining making more energy available to the grid. Funny enough in the us (with how their minute by minute energy auctions) most crypto miners make more money off selling the energy they bought at a low preorder rate at the start of the day back to the grid in the minute by minute rate.

                  I did the math the other day in some cases being a battery on the grid is actually more profitable than being a crypto miner. That's assuming u are optimising for roi and don't already have mining resources.

                  J 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • O over_clox@lemmy.world

                    So, your logic is that generating more energy demand will create more incentive for green energy..?

                    Have you ever worked for an oil company, even as a simple oil change pit worker?

                    Them oil companies couldn't give a flying fuck less about the environment, and they actively fight against green energy.

                    Disclaimer: I only worked for an oil company for about 5 months, back in 2005, and I do not approve of big oil trying to smother green energy technology.

                    Regardless, that's unfortunately how shit still works.

                    J This user is from outside of this forum
                    J This user is from outside of this forum
                    jet@hackertalks.com
                    wrote last edited by
                    #11

                    Not my logic, I was explaining what the phrase meant, which was your question.

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                    • muntedcrocodile@hilariouschaos.comM muntedcrocodile@hilariouschaos.com

                      Not just this but if supply dips or demand goes up rapidly then the miners can stop mining making more energy available to the grid. Funny enough in the us (with how their minute by minute energy auctions) most crypto miners make more money off selling the energy they bought at a low preorder rate at the start of the day back to the grid in the minute by minute rate.

                      I did the math the other day in some cases being a battery on the grid is actually more profitable than being a crypto miner. That's assuming u are optimising for roi and don't already have mining resources.

                      J This user is from outside of this forum
                      J This user is from outside of this forum
                      jet@hackertalks.com
                      wrote last edited by
                      #12

                      Yeah I worked with a energy trader, and you have to be really well positioned to do this, but when you can its like magic free money. Basically getting paid for infrastructure risk

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                      • O over_clox@lemmy.world

                        Show me evidence that children are allowed to use crypto, or that they can even remember enough of the alphabet to remember their password..

                        J This user is from outside of this forum
                        J This user is from outside of this forum
                        jet@hackertalks.com
                        wrote last edited by
                        #13

                        evidence children are allowed to use crypto? They can use phones and tablets, the UI on crypto is just an app. Therefore they can use crypto.

                        Even seen a kid with a few coins buy candy? Ever see a kid use a tap to pay?

                        I'm not sure where your ideas of "allowed" are coming from, but in reality everybody participates in the economy however its transacted.

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